Monday, June 04, 2007

QOTD

UPDATED below

Pamela Bone in The Australian:
To many it is shockingly impolite to suggest that some countries -- Western liberal democracies, for example -- are better than countries that still operate under rules more appropriate to 7th-century century Arabia. Well, sorry, but if by better we mean more conducive to human happiness and human wellbeing, they are.

A society in which young, lightly clothed women and men can sit together at street cafes and discuss the sins of their government is better than a society in which they can be arrested for doing the same; a free and liberal society is better than a society that stones women for having sex outside of marriage and jails gays for existing.

Moreover, you do not help the reformers in socially backward Islamic societies by politely saying, "Well, look at us, we're just as bad, perhaps even worse." We are bad, all right, but we are not just as bad.
Actually, I think the West is pretty good. Especially by comparison to Islamic nations, a point Christina Hoff Sommers makes responding to a letter in the current Weekly Standard (subscription only, alas):
Taina Bien-Aimé argues that because rape and other forms of violence against women exist in all countries, including the United States, there is no point to comparing violence between American and other Western societies and Muslim societies. She evidently sees no difference between societies where such violence may be common, socially sanctioned, and even ceremonial and those where it is exceptional, the occasion of widespread revulsion, and severely punished. In these and many other respects, the condition of women in America is fundamentally different from that of women in countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Somalia, and Iran. Muslim women are not averting their eyes from these differences: They are emphasizing them, making them central to their campaigns for political and social reform. It is a pity that many American feminists are too confused or self-absorbed to help.
MORE:

From Andrew Roberts' magisterial History of the English-Speaking Peoples Since 1900 at 438-39 (2007):
Although the ill-treatment of the Black American has long been held to represent an indelible blot on the escutcheon of the English-speaking peoples, the way in which it was ended goes some way towards counter-balancing this. For in retrospect it is fascinating just how well embedded the civil rights movement was in the established politics of the English-speaking peoples' tradition of protest. . . [Dr. Martin Luther] King's movement -- as opposed to that of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam -- drew its primary inspiration from Mahatma Gandhi's civil disobedience campaigns against the British Empire in India, which in turn looked to the British experience of Great War conscientious objection and the struggle for female suffrage. Facing almost any other opponent in the 1930s, Gandhi's movement would have suffered far worse privations and oppression than they received from the 'boyish tyranny' of the imperial British. 'Shoot Gandhi," was Adolf Hitler's advice to the former Viceroy of India, Lord Halifax, in 1937, 'and if that does not suffice to reduce them to submission, shoot a dozen leading members of Congress; and if that does not suffice, shoot two hundred and so on until order is established.' A glance at what Stalin was doing to various Soviet ethnic minorities at the time, or the way the Japanese were behaving in Manchuria and the Italians in Abyssinia, shows how important it was for Gandhi that he was faced by the English-speaking peoples, who were governed by the customs of law, decency and fair play.
(via Normblog)

12 comments:

MaxedOutMama said...

Speaking purely as a woman, the fact that:
- in the US the mere accusation against my husband of violence will result in court restrictions on him,
-in Saudi Arabia, being beaten nearly to death does not mean that I can divorce my husband,
- or in fact legally run out and drive a car to the police station to escape him,
- or run from a burning building unless fully swathed in fabric,

adds up to me as a distinct superiority for the west.

@nooil4pacifists said...

Agreed. Why is it so hard for many lefties to make such distinctions?

Anonymous said...

Carl asked: "Why is it so hard for many lefties to make such distinctions?"


A: Because they're moral idiots. They suffer from severe moral confusion.

Anonymous said...

More on the serious disinterest of American feminists....

Philadelphia Daily News
SOME WOMEN MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS
By DONNA BAVER ROVITO
http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20070313_SOME_WOMEN_MORE_EQUAL_THAN_OTHERS.html

MaxedOutMama said...

Carl and Powerboss - I think it is more insidious than "moral confusion". Having the rights I wrote of also makes it incumbent on me to exercise them (as well as the more fundamental right and responsibility to marry a man who will not beat me).

This is not what the radical feminists of the west desire. They are in love with identity politics and secretly long for this type of Wahabi society - in which identity is everything, and each individual's rights are constrained by his or her identity. It is an escape from personal responsibility and an end to personal struggle.

My belief is that feminism has taken this toxic turn because women do innately have the instinct to find a good man and merge our loyalties completely with him, ie that old "one flesh" concept. The instinct is biological and emotional, and it runs deep. When this instinctive seeking is driven out of the consciousness, it finds a warped expression in identity politics in some way.

@nooil4pacifists said...

DBR: Great article, thanks!

M_O_M: I think you're 100 percent right. So the feminist left's "toxic turn" is their willful failure to acknowledge that men and women are different -- not un-equal, just different.

MaxedOutMama said...

It depends on your definition of "equal". I surmise that academic feminism adopted the Marxist definition of sameness of social state. That definition makes your statement a contradiction in terms.

Since the Marxist definition of "equal" doesn't work for male/female aspirations, I think academic feminism turned to seek an equal state among all women, and a special status for women in society as a whole. Therefore I truly do not think that they are troubled by Islamic societies which enforce inequality upon women - they probably, at a basic level, perceive that as "fairer" than our society, because individual women are less responsible for their own fates and thereby blame-free. That's certainly the idea they are trying to promulgate in the west, isn't it?

@nooil4pacifists said...

Powerboss: I'm not sure its "moral" or "confusion" (or, if confusion, it's no accident). But there may be something to M_O_M's last point--a complaint about being "put on a pedestal" in a deliberate effort to be put on a pedestal.

Anonymous said...

Indeed. Excellent, thought provoking, commentary. You all are far beyond me in this stuff. I'm here for the ride and hopefully to become a little smarter.


M-O-M said:

"they probably, at a basic level, perceive that as "fairer" than our society, because individual women are less responsible for their own fates and thereby blame-free."

Yes. Such a brilliant point.
"Warped" indeed.

MaxedOutMama said...

Sicker than sick, actually.

If you are a woman, it's pretty frightening to be looking at a leftist female journalist spouting leftist anti-West rhetoric while swathed in a burqa (and proclaiming that Islam RESPECTS women). That woman gives me nightmares.

Anonymous said...

The women who give ME nightmares are the ones who strap explosives around their children's bodies and proclaim that they WANT to sacrifice their children to Allah...how do you fight perversion like that?

@nooil4pacifists said...

DBR: Personally, I favor killing them before they pull the cord.