tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post5842182949195241118..comments2023-12-05T07:50:19.855-05:00Comments on No Oil for Pacifists: Nonsense of the Day@nooil4pacifistshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16688417615117569825noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post-33887282025661421462009-11-02T13:12:12.695-05:002009-11-02T13:12:12.695-05:00OBH: As a principled conservative opposed to judi...OBH: As a principled conservative opposed to judicial activitism, I refuse to embrace the judicial "hail mary" in order to kill it.@nooil4pacifistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16688417615117569825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post-39700597861856449152009-11-02T12:34:20.438-05:002009-11-02T12:34:20.438-05:00Besides....how religious _is_ it if you don't ...Besides....how religious _is_ it if you don't know latin?<br /><br />Other than "Ave Maria", that is.sueknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post-13629762932318412742009-10-31T21:30:27.900-04:002009-10-31T21:30:27.900-04:00> The court opinion makes clear the superintend...> The court opinion makes clear the superintendent was worried about adverse reaction from the audience.<br /><br />If the claim of either "separation of church and state" or "promotion of a religion before others" is a part of that, and I don't see how it cannot be ("audience reaction"? So if the valedictorian's speech was challenging people to act in some fashion, outside of religious belief, it would be cut? How about the religion of <i>Global Warming</i>? :oD ), then clearly it doesn't matter which religion is being promoted -- or how much awareness there might be of the religious connection.<br /><br />Secondly, if avoiding anything that might <i>challenge</i> is acceptable, then we're doomed:<br /><br /><b>A function of free speech under our system of government is to <i>invite dispute</i>. It may indeed best serve its high purposes when it induces a<br />condition of unrest, creates dissatisfaction with conditions as they are, or even stirs people to anger. Speech is often provocative and challenging. It may strike at prejudices and preconceptions and have profound unsettling effects as it presses for acceptance of an idea.</b><br /> - Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas - <br /><br /><b>We need to stop accepting the idea <i>quietly</i> that "ruffled feathers" are sufficient to suppress someone's expressions.</b><br /><br />These students chose a piece which had limited overt religious association, and no <i>direct</i> religious context. If you did not know of the music's religious lyrics, there is no way someone would make such an association, so the piece, by itself, is not religious, ergo, the superintendent clearly exceeded his bounds by outlawing it in attempting to presuppose the thoughts of someone hearing it, their level of offense, and the justifications for such offense.<br /><br />We should now outlaw an expression because someone <i>might</i> have a bad association with it <b>in their head!?!?!?</b><br /><br />I largely agree with you that this sort of thing should not be settled in the courts, but <br /><br />a) The "opposition" continually resort to the courts to press the point the other way. If they are determined to make that the battlefield, it's needful to play it out there, as well.<br /><br />b) How do you propose eliminating this sort of crap when the only people who <i>can</i> qualify for these positions these days are <b>postmodern liberals</b>? When you can't install someone in office who <b>does</b> truly respect free speech and sensible responses to challenging speech, what can you do?<br /><br />Yes, The Law is not "common sense"... but it is strongly connected to it.<br /><br />When it keeps getting more and more out of connection to common sense as time goes by, then, sooner or later, common sense wins -- and either we all become lawbreakers and Rule of Law disappears, or the law rights itself and comes back into line with common sense.<br /><br />Like it or not, The Law is a finite attempt to define proper behavior for an infinite number of possible circumstances. When forces distort, twist, and manipulate The Law until it no longer even matches up with "proper behavior" in <i>major</i> respects, then The Eleventh Commandment becomes The Only Rule People Obey.OBloodyHellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09992539380115488567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post-69172146377514518232009-10-31T18:03:29.783-04:002009-10-31T18:03:29.783-04:00GW: glad to see you're still around. The fir...GW: glad to see you're still around. The first part of Buckley's speech, on <a href="http://nooilforpacifists.blogspot.com/2008/02/liberal-theocracy.html" rel="nofollow">opposing believers for governmental jobs</a>, is shooting fish in a barrel--he's clearly right: <a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlevi.html" rel="nofollow">the Constitution forbids any "religious test" as a qualification for office</a>.<br /><br />The remainder of Buckley's article is right on point with this post and GB's comment. My views, expressed in previous pieces linked in this post <a href="http://nooilforpacifists.blogspot.com/2008/12/media-bias-part-xxxiii.html" rel="nofollow">and</a> <a href="http://nooilforpacifists.blogspot.com/2004/03/bizzaro-religion-you-may-have-heard-of.html" rel="nofollow">several</a> <a href="http://nooilforpacifists.blogspot.com/2005/08/religion-and-morality-debate-continues.html" rel="nofollow">other</a> <a href="http://nooilforpacifists.blogspot.com/2007/06/weve-seen-this-movie-before.html#2393714356738729777" rel="nofollow">posts</a> are somewhere between Buckley and OBH. I don't favor tax-supported religion. <a href="http://nooilforpacifists.blogspot.com/2005/05/secularism-just-another-ism.html" rel="nofollow">But</a>, "[t]he Constitution does not shield one from encountering religion any more than it protects from being hit by air molecules." For all the left's talk of tolerance, they object to professions of faith in the public sphere just as Nordlinger describes.<br /><br />OBH: I suspect you're partly right. Lefties sometimes seem <a href="http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2003/12/courts-okay-to-proselytize-for-islam-in" rel="nofollow">more comfortable</a> <a href="http://nooilforpacifists.blogspot.com/2004/02/islamic-republic-of-australia-other.html" rel="nofollow">with Islam</a> than <a href="http://nooilforpacifists.blogspot.com/2004/02/think-americas-too-religious-many.html" rel="nofollow">Judeo–Christian</a> <a href="http://nooilforpacifists.blogspot.com/2004/12/sound-of-silence.html" rel="nofollow">expression</a>. Still, your hypothetical wouldn't work. The court opinion makes clear the superintendent was worried about adverse reaction from the audience. And though attendees at a typical high school graduation could be expected to recognize the title "Ave Maria," they probably wouldn't see the significance of, say, an Arabic-language title of <a href="http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/5011" rel="nofollow">an Islamic religious song</a>.@nooil4pacifistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16688417615117569825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post-62390242477118986792009-10-31T14:32:06.951-04:002009-10-31T14:32:06.951-04:00The wind ensemble should play Ozzie Ozborne's ...The wind ensemble should play Ozzie Ozborne's "No More Tears"... LOL.<br /><br />It's an impressive orchestral piece, even if it is about a serial killer.OBloodyHellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09992539380115488567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post-89190970406238084312009-10-31T14:30:27.641-04:002009-10-31T14:30:27.641-04:00> to publicly it clear
"to publicly clari...> to publicly it clear<br /><br />"to publicly clarify"<br /><br />Doh.<br /><br />I hate writing into little boxes. :oPOBloodyHellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09992539380115488567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post-87301740643528563542009-10-31T14:28:56.986-04:002009-10-31T14:28:56.986-04:00> As you point out, many liberals interpret &q...> As you point out, many liberals interpret "establishment of religion" to mean freedom from religion in the public square.<br /><br />Well, to play Devil's Advocate, I believe there is a legitimate issue with the idea of using <i>public funds</i> in a manner which <i>promotes</i> religion. <br /><br />I think this example fails that test abysmally, but that's beside the point, there is slightly more to it than freedom <i>from</i> religion.<br /><br />I think much more telling would be if the band decided to play something with a clear Islamic religious bent. Who wants to bet the admin would have no problem with that? And I'd have done THAT prior to initiating the suit -- by proposing some piece of Islamic music, then getting "someone else" to publicly it clear that it was religious in nature, too, and see the reaction of the admin in question, which odds are would be a shrug -- make it clear that Christianity was being <i>singled out</i> for special rules against it.<br /><br />THAT would strike me as effective cannon fodder for a lawsuit. Because I believe that is what is really going on here -- <i>this is not anti-religion.</i> <br /><br /><b>It's anti-Christian.</b>OBloodyHellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09992539380115488567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post-70857142388516317292009-10-31T11:56:55.203-04:002009-10-31T11:56:55.203-04:00You might wish to read this Buckley speech on reli...You might wish to read this Buckley speech on religion in America and the SCT establishment clause decisions. http://www.plumbbobblog.com/?p=4314<br /><br />I am not particularly religious, but I firmly believe the activist decisions that have removed all hint of religion from public life is fundamentally flawed. It has had a decidedly negative impact on our nation.GWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05814327154035433443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6427940.post-85290359253671169992009-10-31T00:19:58.346-04:002009-10-31T00:19:58.346-04:00The interpretation of what the founding fathers in...The interpretation of what the founding fathers intention was in the First Amendment's prohibition of "establishment of religion" is wherein the controversy lies.<br /><br />As you point out, many liberals interpret "establishment of religion" to mean freedom <i>from</i> religion in the public square.<br /><br />Conservatives interpret the prohibition to mean governmental advocacy and promotion of <i>a particular religion or sect</i>, such as Catholicism, Protestantism, etc.Geoffrey Britainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01663224962346593872noreply@blogger.com